CoutureCast

Read Mik Serfontaine's Podcast Interview | All Podcast interviews are copyrighted and property of CoutureCandy.com 2007

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JJ: Hello and welcome to Couture Talk from CoutureCandy.com. Today is June 8th, 2006, and this is Jill Johnson, the CEO of CoutureCandy.com. With me today I have Mik Serfontaine from Serfontaine Jeans. Hi, Mik.

MS: Hi!

JJ: It's so great for you to meet with us today.

MS: Thank you. No, thank you for having me on. I really appreciate the time.

JJ: Great. Well, all of our listeners, and your customers out there are, I'm sure, very excited to hear more The Serfontaine, and more about your history and what inspired you, and more about your denim line.

MS: OK.

JJ: I know that you've been in LA since the 80s, right?

MS: That's correct.

JJ: And you opened your first boutique in Venice in 95?

MS: Yeah, that's correct.

JJ: So, tell me about your first boutique in Venice, California and what the times were like, what people were wearing, etc.

MS: Definitely not jeans, that's for sure!

JJ: [laughs] I bet!

MS: So, how that all came about was, I was actually dealing in vintage denim and I used to do things like the Rose Bowl swap meet, and for those people who are not in LA, that's a rather large swap meet and particularly known for its vintage section of denim. And that's kind of where I cut my teeth, learning about the different qualities of denim.

JJ: The big E, and the salvages, and the red lines. I got my start there, too.

MS: Oh, OK. Then you know all about it. Those were very exciting times, although it kind of was tapering off already because at that point in time a lot of vintage had been forced and sent out of the country already, especially to places like Japan that bought most of it.

JJ: And it was totally exposed, too, so it was harder to come by.

MS: Yes, it was very hard at the end, so that kind of segued me into my boutique, which I opened on Abbot Kinney Boulevard back then which was really kind of a sleek little Venice, honest town, and now it has moved into quite a retail Mecca. But, nonetheless, it was kind of like a Bohemian existence, but it also taught me a lot about the industry and not just selling, but also how to make clothes, because that's where I started doing my first collection, out of the back of a store. I bought a few sewing machines, hired some ladies to sew, and went around some of the local boutiques like Fred Segal, and who was around back then? Tracy Ross.

JJ: Right.

MS: And just really started selling and learning all aspects of the business, so it was really an education.

JJ: What were you making back then?

MS: Oh we were making everything from sweats to, actually a pair of jeans, which, you know, being a rock n' roll kind of guy, always looking for denim that was cool. And really not a lot of denim back then, so Mulberry was a female jean, but I guess you could say it was the female counterpart to what I was looking for in a guy's jean, something boot cut back then, which as I said was already available in a Levi's 646, which by then was gone, you couldn't find those anymore.

So, really just kind of what we liked. There was no real big plan, or master plan, behind that line. It was really learning how to make patterns, markers, and it was setting the stage for what I didn't know would become Serfontaine because the first Serfontaine Jean that launched the company was actually designed back then. It became the platform for where we are now. But that was five years of education, from 95 to about 99 and that's when denim started emerging as a new fashionable niche.

JJ: Right.

MS: Which hadn't existed before then. It was women's only and, being a retailer, you could not find low rise jeans.

JJ: I remember that. [laughs]

MS: So, it was quite frustrating for customers coming into the boutique looking for, actually, anything low rise.

JJ: And was that about the time when people were cutting off the tops of their denim jeans, too?

MS: Correct. Do you remember that Jane Jackson picture?

JJ: Oh yeah! [laughs]

MS: [laughs] Well, the designer named Daniella Clark, she showed up at my store. I think I was the first or second store to carry Frankie B. So, I have to give credit where credit's due. She really launched the low rise jean back then.

JJ: Yeah, she did.

MS: Yeah, she did, and that just started taking off like wildfire. Although, the price wasn't premium yet. I was only selling the jean for about $80, and people were still kind of shocked back then.

JJ: Right. I had a boutique in Santa Barbara at the time that picked up the line Frankie B, and I wore them a lot myself, and I do remember it. Now they're a couple hundred dollars, probably.

MS: Yeah, exactly, so that's come a long way. But, people weren't used to paying that price, although there was a whole, I guess, slew of girls waiting for something like that to show up, so price doesn't become an option, but at $80 it was still pushing the envelope. So when I launched Serfontaine a few months later, we actually started at about 120 130.

JJ: Wow.

MS: So, people said....

JJ: You would never pay a hundred dollars for a pair of jeans!

MS: Never. Are you crazy? Nobody's going to pay $130 for a pair of jeans, especially made in America, or California. Because back then only the Italians or the European designers were getting that kind of price for jeans.

JJ: Oh, everybody wanted that that was right at post to the mid 60 boom in San Marino.

MS: Exactly, So, it was unheard of for California designers to ask that much for denim. So, we were probably the leaders, I'd say, in setting that premium image, or creating that premium niche. There weren't many brands, even back then there were about four or five of us when we started back then. We're talking pre Jos, pre Sevens, pre Paperdenim.

JJ: And people went crazy over Serfontaine.

MS: Yeah, you know, we started with one jean; that's all that I could afford. I made 120 pairs and took them to Tracy Robinson, a couple of cool [inaudible] kind of blue. I dropped them off on a Friday and by Monday they were sold out. They were calling me and my wife, my partner Maria, saying, "Hey, we sold out of the jeans in two days, can you bring us more?"

JJ: Wow, that's incredible.

MS: So, we knew we had a business.

JJ: Right! Let's talk about the other items that impacted your business. How did all the celebrities find you?

MS: You know what, because back then there was not much in the way of denim. The store that we went into, we were [inaudible] by designers.

JJ: Right.

MS: Really it's the stylist that is always out there looking for something for their clients, ie the celebrities.

JJ: They must have thought you were a godsend, especially when it came to their Rock n' Roll clientele.

MS: Exactly. So, first celebrity was Britney, it was pre Kevin days, [laughs] and she found our easy rise jean, which is a very unique design. In fact, we hold two design patents on that jean, and she then loved and wore it, and asked if I could start to make clothes for her tour that year, which was 2001. And we did the album cover, too.

JJ: What a fabulous compliment, too.

MS: Yeah, so then when her stylist back then bought the jeans for her, next was Jennifer Lopez, after that was Halle Berry, and everybody just kind of a Domino effect.

JJ: Wow.

MS: So, much props to the stylists.

JJ: Oh yeah, that's wonderful. What you just said a minute ago too. Let's talk about your patents.

MS: Yeah, as much as denim is kind of a timeless look to it and it needed a perfect designer for five pocket, my goal back then was to kind of to challenge that status quo of the way it looked. So we went, you know, went for something that just kind of came out into a little bit of trial and error, you know, wanted to make it look rock n' roll, so I put in an exposed zipper, you know with a rainbow, which is really '60s...

JJ: Oh yeah.

MS: ...and kind of put a yolk all the way around the jean. A yolk is the back part of a jean where the jean actually draped off your waste.

JJ: Right. Below the waste but above the back pocket.

MS: The yolk...correct. There we made it into kind of a western kind of style and put it all the way around the jean. So, you know, it kind of really just translated instantly into something not basic and back then it was kind of groundbreaking just because when most of the premium denim brands on the watch later, they were all just 5 pocket jeans...

JJ: Right.

MS: ...but it really was a unique piece and based on that fact, you know, we were able to get two design patents. One on the whole look of the jeans and then also on that specific yolk, that Western style yolk, which has been imitated and emulated by many companies since.

JJ: Yeah, I remember Licks doing a lot with that. Remember that?

MS: It was recently Antiques.

JJ: Yeah Antiques, I did know that.

MS: So you know, it really is something that kind of broke the mold. What it did was it also, the premium denim market was very cautious...it was kind of like the rock n' roll industry when it started. It was all about being safe, wearing suits, you know, not challenging the establishment and then, you know, and then Serfontaine came along and it was kind of like the Rolling Stones, you know like the bad boys, you know.

JJ: That's awesome.

MS: Yeah.

JJ: [laughs] I think you truly must be a genius to do something so groundbreaking to a classic. I mean, who can do that? Yeah.

MS: It just comes down to not want... it wasn't based on anything other than the design and the integrity of the design. It wasn't like, "We have a company to support and we need to make jeans and let's just manufacture and copy whoever out there has a hot jean." You know, by default. There's a lot of companies right now that are just a few months out on the market because they have a factory, especially L.A., there are tons of manufacturers but very few designers.

JJ: Well clearly your heart is in it too and I am sure, that, with your knowledge is just such a recipe for success.

MS: It has to be.

JJ: It has to be?

MS: The hardest part in it is what are you going to be offering?

JJ: Right.

MS: I think all aspects of life. If you're not into what you're doing it's going to show.

JJ: Another charming thing is that you work with your wife Maria.

MS: Correct.

JJ: Yeah, and I know that you've told me everything is right under the same roof...

MS: Correct.

JJ: How is that? Does that make it easier because you can conceptualize a product and you have it right there so you have your eye over everything.

MS: Yeah. Definitely a two stage process. Maria is very essential because she is the woman's perspective of what I'm creating because I can create something great on a piece of paper. Create a sample but putting it on to a woman's body doesn't necessarily mean it's going to translate.

JJ: Yeah, I see that and it's so important.

MS: She's a great shopper, she shops a lot and she'll say, "This sucks, I wouldn't buy it, we're not going to do that."

JJ: Jeans are so personal that it really does take a woman to put them on to tell the slightest, slightest change in the shape of the hips or the rise of the waistband or any of that, makes a big difference.

MS: First personal perspective and sometimes designers can get a little off track and a little bit esoteric, you know.

JJ: Yeah, I understand.

MS: So, and then once we've got something we think can translate then yeah we have a whole facility, we've invested a lot of time and money because the designs we were coming out when we were establishing ourselves were so challenging. A lot of manufacturers wouldn't accept our styles and wouldn't want to sew that.

JJ: Right.

MS: So we had to buy our own machines and set them up and really just start something unheard of really because a lot of people/designers will go to a manufacturer and say, "Will you back me?"

JJ: "But what kind of wacky thing are you doing, I don't about it."

MS: Yeah and you know, a lot of people end up selling their souls for nothing, and then the manufacturer takes over and they're not designers and they don't have a vision and they don't want to change everything and they don't want to dumb everything down. Having our factory enabled us to come to the next breakthrough which is the box stitch, which is this thick, chunky stitch, which 3 4 years ago was also groundbreaking but everybody was trying to copy denim.

JJ: Right.

MS: We weren't making basics but what happened was we got a lot of requests from people, "Hey, we love Serfontaine, we've got a lot of your stuff but I also want a basic where somebody can wear it during the day, not necessarily so dressed up, can you do something for us?" But we didn't want to just make a four or five hundred basic because a lot of people were doing that back then. So how do you keep the integrity of the five pocket jean which I mentioned earlier it's an almost perfect design that hasn't been changed in 150 years so how do you respect that and also give it your own style?

JJ: So, what made you think of the hook stitch?

MS: Yeah, so we decided to focus on one of the elements that make up the jean, which was the stitching, which has always kind of just been very functional for jeans. It's all the jeans together, you know. So we said, "Why don't we take that stitch and enhance it and really make the feature of a jean, where its also not only, you know, functional, but its also an esthetic, because, you know, once it's so prominent, you start playing with the colors. So we came up with this really chunky stitch, we had to customize all our sewing machines, kind of like country sewing machines...

JJ: Oh yeah. [laughs]

MS: ...all that to it. And then we were able to start playing with different colors. We were probably the first brand out there to start doing all the color stitching, like the pink, rope stitch on jeans, which people haven't seen before and we just started playing seasonally, obviously with the colors.

JJ: I like the gold, that was so cool.

MS: A couple of years ago I started putting the gold and the silver and the copper which is also now everybody has been doing that. And then the rope stitch kind of just took off. So we really differentiated ourselves from everything else out there when you had 50 companies' basics on the floor, you could always pick up Serfontaine because it was always the most unique looking with the stitch and people just picked up on that. But at first we couldn't really break through with it. People didn't understand it. They wandered what was going on back then. The real clean, well not even clean, just a basic, and we just felt like we always kind of pushed the envelope, maybe a couple of years too early...

JJ: And when something like that is embraced though, then people will recognize you as being on the forefront of that and then once something becomes so identifiable, people can't wait to get their hands on it.

MS: Exactly, you know, and that's kind of what established us, especially in the industry, and no one amongst the industry has the kind of pioneers and leaders. People kind of look to us a little bit to see what's going on in the market and what's going to happen in the next few months. But what's happened is we've drawn the attention of the bigger designers. I can't mention their name, but recently been approached by one of the world's largest or best known designers out of New York to do jeans for her runway collection for September.

JJ: I can't wait to hear about that.

MS: Yes, because they look at us as being specialists. We know what we're doing. And they need that because jeans can become a specialized industry because if you don't have the best, you can't even compete out there.

JJ: Right.

MS: So that's how it naturally evolves when you focus on doing something that you're passionate about.

JJ: What else do you have on the horizon? Now I know that you and Maria recently had a baby.

MS: Yes we did.

JJ: Six months ago?

MS: About nine months now.

JJ: Oh, nine months.

MS: Yes.

JJ: So have you thought about creating Baby Serfontaine?

MS: No, but we do have Maternity.

JJ: Oh, good.

MS: Yes, because obviously when Maria was pregnant I had to make her a jean because she refused to where anybody else's.

JJ: Right.

MS: Actually what happened was, she went out shopping looking for jeans. Every maternity jean out there just was not constructed correctly. You know, same thing. It's just an after thought. It was an after thought where most darn companies when asked to do maternity jean, they'll just say, "Ok, we'll just take our best selling one and just sew an elastic waste band on it."

JJ: Right.

MS: That doesn't work. It was uncomfortable. It was cutting her in the middle of the stomach. The elastic generally isn't all the way around the jeans. It doesn't stay on the waist. They fall down. So we really spent some time designing the waistband and contouring it and making sure that it is something that fits, number one. And then we went out and made a whole collection, not just one or two jeans. So why does a pregnant woman in this time and age have to compromise?

JJ: Right.

MS: You know, why can't you be fashionable and pregnant? So we have gauchos available. We have an italic stitch, we have in gold. So we have all of our fashionable [inaudible] available in maternity. And right now, you can find in baby style, done deliberately for them and mostly in the top maternity stores in the U.S.

JJ: Great. I think that we're hoping to someday launch a maternity and child site too at Couture Candy.

MS: You know, with all the celebrities being pregnant, too, it's such a hot item. I don't really see people stop having babies soon so like anything it's a premium industry, it's a new niche that's going to continue to grow along with kids, which we're focusing on next. We're going to do a cute little kids collection, especially when you think about.

JJ: It'll be adorable.

MS: What you can do with the colored stitching on little girl's jeans and things like that, you know. We're going to have a lot of fun with it.

JJ: Oh, you will have a lot of fun with it. I think Maria did it right. Every pregnant woman should have a man at home sewing jeans for them. And let's also touch on Bamboo Tiger.

MS: Yeah, so that's pretty exciting, too. What it is is at Serfontaine I believe in not blurring the lines when it comes to creativity and just dumping every idea that we get into Serfontaine because Serfontaine is a certain identity, a certain type of customer, it appeals to a certain type of lifestyle. However, there are days when you don't want to wear denim and you want to be comfortable or you just want a change. So what Bamboo Tiger is is everything that is not denim that comes out of our design studio, but still with the really cool I say it's got a lot of L.A. in it because it's casual, but a little bit rock n' roll. Say if you took sweats and you made them so that you could wear it out, but not so casual. And it's kind of a unique look. We've used.

JJ: It's very L.A.

MS: Our rope stitching on it and made cute, fashionable bodies out of it from crops to shorts to overall, which is kind of cool right now, and twills, available in colors that are washed down and beat up. So something that has an identity to it but not too generic and not denim.

JJ: So the Serfontaine collection is all denim. Correct? And twills?

MS: We're focused on denim. It's sexy, fashionable and it's going to stay that way. It's going to get more fashionable in that we've now been asked to do the 7th on Sixth New York fashion show which is, you know, in the tents of the Bryant Park, a designer show from Dolche and Diamond B. So we're going to be sponsored by Invista, the large company that owns Lycra.

JJ: Oh, wow.

MS: Yeah, we're teaming up with them. They're debuting the next generation of Lycra which is a two way stretch Lycra called XFit.

JJ: Right.

MS: And this is probably, whoever hears this podcast will probably be the first people to find out about it.

JJ: Wonderful.

MS: So they are sponsoring us to do a runway show and Serfontaine is really going to focus on doing even more exquisite pieces.

JJ: So Mik, can you incorporate the XFit Lycra into denim?

MS: Oh, definitely. That's what they've been working on for the past year working diligently with them to conquer things like the wash aspects of it. We've been testing this lycra for a couple years with them. And it's fantastic because technically when you think about stretch, your body doesn't really stretch in widths. It's stretching in you movement and your lateral movement, I think, from your knees are bent. You need to stretch that way. You don't need to stretch in width. But the jean is just so comfortable and at the same time we're retaining all of the other aspects that are making the jean great. You could compare it from going from a battery base to something electrical. This is so much better. There's nothing that can take away that comfort factor once you've tried on XFit. It really is the next generation of Lycra.

JJ: We're all looking forward to that.

MS: Yeah, I think everybody's going to have an opportunity to do it to because we're going to do a pretty big launch with it.

JJ: So the other thing I'm very excited about in Serfontaine and from Mik, is a new way to design custom jeans called Body Metrics. Talk to me about the whole custom jean.

MS: Ok. It's very exciting. We were approached by a European software company that had developed scanning technology. The best way to describe it would be you walk into a dressing room at your favorite store, Petite Pops or whatever it is. There is a scanning technology that just as you would have to take your clothes off to try on a pair of jeans, you would get scanned in five seconds, about 200 points of measurement on your body, by light. Those measurements are then put into a computer. And what happens is those measurements are sent to my design room, my fax.

JJ: That's incredible.

MS: We then adjust your body to our base pattern to exactly the specs that your body requires. We print out your pattern. We cut your jean. We make for you, put your name on it from Serfontaine to Jill and we send it to you.

JJ: Wow.

MS: And we've had a ninety nine percent success rate so far. We've done over 200 pairs in London alone. We're doing it in London and Paris right now at two department stores, in London at Selfridges and in Paris at Bon Marche. And smashing success because where else can you get a custom pair of jeans made specifically for you? We're not just talking about jeans that have been customized with rivets or things like that, we're talking about actual cut.

JJ: It's absolutely incredible. I can't imagine who wouldn't be jumping on this.

MS: No, I know. We're teaming up with American Rag and those people. Not in Los Angeles, American Rag is really a pioneer too in a lot of ways in the denim community and they have a flagship store in La Brea, they have one in San Francisco and opening one in....

JJ: Amazing store. I love that store.

MS: Exactly, so we're going to be looking at debuting this early next year, at American Rag. From there it's going, I think, to explode because there's so many different body types out there.

JJ: Yeah. And women go crazy to find the perfect pair of jeans. Any price, just whatever it takes, just get me the perfect pair of jeans and once they find them, they're in love, they feel great.

MS: Yeah. So have women order just multiple pairs, like seven pairs sometimes,

JJ: So you keep their pattern on file and maybe every few years you might want to rescan them in case their body changes?

MS: Exactly. Hopefully you've lost a lot of weight. [laughter] You come back, we scan again once over, whatever you want to do, we turn the jeans around in about seven to ten days.

JJ: That's incredible.

MS: Truly the perfect fitting pair of jeans which a lot of people claim to have, but obviously that's not that critical when you consider the amount of body types out there.

JJ: You definitely have to keep us posted when that nears actuality.

MS: We'll have you done, Jill, and we'll make you a pair of custom Serfontaines.

JJ: Wonderful. I would be so thrilled. Sounds great. Okay, so in closing, I want to ask you a few questions. Who is your muse?

MS: I would say the shopper, the woman who is out there and is looking to add something to her wardrobe that is relevant, but timeless, not necessarily so trendy, something that is edgy and more of a lifestyle and would have appeal to an age. I think that is the perfect Serfontaine customer.

JJ: Wonderful. Who would be your fashion style icon or is there somebody who has given you a particular amount of inspiration?

MS: You know, it is really up to the individual. I can't say any one look, because I don't have a favorite in that look. There's musicians that dress impeccably, and then you can go all the way back to the old jazz artists and see the amount of style they had. I think style is just intrinsically something that comes from within. It doesn't necessarily have to be even a designer. You can choose, and these days you kind of have people style themselves. They'll go out and buy something, not necessarily head to toe in one designer.

JJ: That's the way I always dress, and I think our style at Couture Candy is to always recommend things you can wear with your existing wardrobe, or sometimes our stylist section might say to pick up a vintage scarf and try this out or any kind of mixing it up is always really good with us.

MS: Exactly. And you know that really should just be an enhancement of your personality. It shouldn't really define you. A person should always be defined by who they are inside. So stylistically, I really admire those people who tend to have a unique personality, and everything else just makes sense, no matter what it is they are wearing.

JJ: But the thing is, everyone really does need a good pair of jeans. That's inarguable.

MS: Yes. At least ten of them. [laughter]

JJ: At least. Okay, what would you not be caught dead in?

MS: I don't want to put my foot in it because it's probably what I'll make next, right? [laughter]

JJ: Smart man.

MS: Maybe a Members Only jacket, I don't know.

JJ: Oh that is so funny. You know, I interviewed Jeff Rudes from J Brand Jeans last week and he said the same thing.

MS: Is that so?

JJ: He did.

MS: They have re launched.

JJ: That's what he said too.

MS: Just out of irony. Who knows, these days it just seems to be so many niches, so many different types of people out there. There's pretty much something for everybody out there.

JJ: Yeah. So what is your favorite item in your closet?

MS: I'd have to say I'm really a traditionalist when it comes to what I wear, so from my boots to my leather jacket to my jeans, it kind of has to be timeless. I wear Mexico boots, the greatest motorcycle boots ever made. Jeans, obviously Serfontaine, but if it is salvaged denim which is the old way they used to make denim back in the early twentieth century, in 1905, et cetera and forward, up to 1984. When it comes to jackets, I like a blazer occasionally. Yves St. Laurent makes some great cuts, especially all the vintage pieces really cut closely to the arm holes and tightly fitted. And leather jackets, they have to be something that is American and it has to be old, a Bluco or anything like that from the 50s or 60s would suit me just fine. And T shirts, I love collecting vintage T shirts. I'm a fanatic. I have hundreds of them. I have boxes of vintage T shirts.

JJ: I love them too.

MS: Anything rock n' roll. Anything maybe old, vintage surf wear inspired. Something that was just plain old waffle necks in the fifties.

JJ: You'll appreciate this. I still have a pair of 503B double X's that I wear.

MS: You do?

JJ: Yeah, they're little but they've only got two buttons on the fly, and they're so old and they're so cool.

MS: I may have to try to buy those off of you.

JJ: They're awesome. They're high waders. I use to always rock them with my vintage shorties boots from the forties.

MS: Ah, there you go. Now you're talking.

JJ: Yeah. That is my favorite pair of jeans, really.

MS: You can't get away from them. We need to go back to our roots, you know?

JJ: Yeah, we can't get away from it. My last question is, if you could go anywhere tomorrow where would it be?

MS: I'd have to say somewhere where the waves are good, the weather is about 80, and everybody's laid back.

JJ: So you'd stay home?

MS: Like Maui, we have a house.

JJ: How nice. Good. Well, I so much appreciated talking to you today and I'm sure your customers and fans out there love hearing what you are up to and all the creative inspiration behind it and how you got your start. I certainly really enjoyed hearing about it. Is there any one last thing you want to say to the people out there listening?

MS: I just really appreciate the fact that people, especially the people who know Serfontaine seem to really buy everything that we make, almost everything, anyway, and they really seems to support us, so I appreciate that from the shopping community.

JJ: They do love it. We get so many calls, people loving it, every time you come up with something new, immediately people are very happy about it.

MS: Yeah, so they can expect more of the same philosophy, more of the same. Keep pushing the envelope trying to stay a step ahead of everyone else and just really look forward to seeing them out there in the near future.

JJ: And don't forget to find Serfontaine on CoutureCandy.com. We've got a great selection.

MS: Yes, thank you.

JJ: Thank you so much.

MS: Thank you, Jill. Thank you for your time and I look forward to doing it again soon.

JJ: Wonderful.